Episode 15: Liz Allan and Juliet Davenport – The Green Startup, renewables and infrared heating

[Music] Welcome to Electric Evolution with Liz Allan this podcast is about the journey

to a more sustainable future in order for us to be able to do our bits to achieve Net Zero I’ll be discussing a

variety of topics with experts in their field in order to educate and increase our knowledge of Clean Energy electric

vehicles and the electric vehicle infrastructure so whether you’re an individual wants to make a difference at

home a small business or a corporate this podcast is just for you

so today on the podcast I have Juliet devonport who is with me today on a very

very cold December morning you’ve been fighting your way through the snow Yeah yeah yes definitely thank you for

joining us okay for joining us it’s a world of new a new world where we can join anybody even if it is snowing or

snowed into our homes exactly yeah the in the old in the olden days

do any of this could you laugh no it’s amazing so Aaron’s going to read through

some of the things that I wrote because your CV is just amazing you’re a green

entrepreneur and author I wanted to say that first founder and CEO of good energy you’re the you’re an ed so

non-executive director at Connected curve curb um chair of attractor on-site energy the

president of energy Institute and you’re a climate scientist and Renewables Pioneer and an advocate for solutions

for climate change that is just amazing my God so firstly just thank you for

joining me and secondly please tell me more about this because how have you how

do you actually have do you use all 24 hours well I’d say things that come things

have become a lot easier in some ways because we have the technology that we can we can input to learn we don’t

actually have to be physically in the same place as someone to be able to support people and be able to do things so and the book for example

I wrote that with a co-writer and we did that in three months we did it all remotely

in three months that’s not bad well there was a lot in there that needed to come out so that’s that’s what it was

oh that’s fabulous so come on some of these things that you’re doing though so so tell me about good energy to start

yeah so you’ve been you’ve been founder and CEO it’s quite a long time was it about 17 or 20 it’s about 20 years in

total I think yes so that was I mean that was a really that was really a guess where I started I mean I I to be

fair one of the reasons probably where I’ve done so many things is that when I first started off so I did atmosphere

physics wanted to do something on climate change and there wasn’t a climate industry really at that point

this was like 20 25 years nearly 30 years ago probably wow um and so I ended up doing lots of

different things I I actually did Hospital radio at one point Maybe

I did I was when I was about this is a long time ago when I was about 15 I helped out Hospital radio as well but

that was when I lived in Halifax so well I’m not sure I’m not sure the patient’s particularly appreciated my my style was

a lot of angle but Humperdinck I think lots of all the music it’s donated

that was a lot of choice so but but I did them at that I worked in I went to sports PR for a while which was

interesting selling Lotto football boots at one point hilariously

um but it but all of it behind the scenes I was actually trying to do something on climate change and eventually I kind of I got I went and

worked in the European commission for a while on policy so I got some insight in terms of how energy policy worked

um but I got interestingly I got fed up with the institutional approach and I got the opportunity I mentioned

entrepreneur in uh Greece I think it was he was German we met in Greece and we

started talking about this concept of empowering individuals to actually make change because quite often what you find

I think with financial institutions and actually with government institutions is they tend to move very slowly because

they’re very risk-averse and actually the individual quite often can make big better decisions more quickly because

they’re making decisions on their own behalf and um that was really the kind of

foundation of good and it it morphed into something more than that I said it started with the individual piece but it

kind of moved into um Community piece as well so we work a lot of community energy generators we

worked with nearly 2 200 000 homes generating their own power

um I mean and it became more of a business a proper decentralized energy business

um as time progressed um but yeah it was a lot of change right at the beginning Renewables were at two

percent um in the UK elections must be closer to 45 50 event today so massive shift over

that time as well no that’s that is really getting there isn’t it finally how how long do you

think before we’re going to be is there ever is there ever going to be a time when we’re gonna when we’re we’re

gonna have you know kind of near nearer to 100 well we I mean this is a piece of

work I did just before I left so we worked with the energy systems catapult to look at

um and they do all the work for the climate change committee to look at if you pushed the UK to 100 what does it

look like what do you have to believe to get there um you have to believe in Energy Efficiency a lot of Energy Efficiency

which we’re beginning to see this semblance of that happening now with with what’s going on in the Ukraine and

what’s going on with the weather here as well so we’re beginning to see a little bit of that uh still could do some more

I would say a lot more um and then yeah in terms of Renewables we’ve got nearly enough to get to nearly

100 Renewables basically you need you need some marginal fuels on the edge with carbon capture and storage

um but yeah it’s the potential is there um there are quite a lot of hurdles in

the way to get there um and we we were just talking about your the heating system that you just

got yeah since the moment you can barely see it because it’s white I know I know

and this is going to be on audio as well see that one so explain so you said so

it’s a company called Herschel yes because it’s so it is really really cold but you tell me more about that yes so

my office is in the Attic of my house uh and although super insulated did this last last summer because I knew this

winter was coming um I wanted to talk to you about this super insulation because ours is rubbish

but there’s no heating up here so I have to have some form of heating so I

decided to try out uh infrared so infrared is really interesting it Heats

you directly it’s like sitting in front of the Sun so you know when you sit in front of the set in you’re lying in the

sun maybe in the summer and then it goes behind a cloud get super cold really quickly

that’s because the heat you are receiving is radiative it’s not warming the the air around you so the air

temperature hasn’t gone up a lot but you’re getting the heat directly from the Sun and that’s how one of these guys works so the the heater itself is giving

off radiative heat so it doesn’t it doesn’t rise particularly you can you can mount them on ceilings and you can

it’s a bit like a light if you think about a light it works in the same way as a light but with heat instead of

light oh so you can mount it you can mount it anywhere yeah

that’s just really really interesting I am going to definitely be looking at that because I’m not joking our house is

cold and drafty and not super insulated at the moment so so this is part of my

my journey is to understand about you know what can we do to to kind of make sure that that um we lose less energy

just yeah we keep what we’ve got and generate it in more efficient efficient and sustainable way so so brilliant

um what about so okay I’m just looking again tell me about your book so the

books yeah yeah so how do you come about and and tell tell me what it’s about

well but with really an idea of the team at good because they kind of went lots

of Founders write books Juliet you should write a book and I wear okay fine and we came up with a kind of concept

for a book which was very much about how the story of good energy was built and all the things that happened along the

way and all this kind of stuff um and I didn’t feel massively

comfortable with it but it was okay because it’s very personal story and I just and anyway we went to some

Publishers they didn’t particularly like it we then came across bonier books who changed it and actually they changed it

I had I did a podcast while I was a girl called great green questions which was really interviewing people about

particularly difficult questions like should I ever get on the plane again and should I go vegan and all those kind of

things and actually so that’s where the book came from so the book took some of my experience at good

for good and for bad to be honest when I’ve got things where I am wrong um and it then we then go and talk to

three or four other people um not necessarily an energy industry in lots of different Industries about how

they set up their businesses what they did in this particular situation and so we give kind of we tell their story a

bit and then we come up some very practical advice so um there’s a whole section obviously on energy how could there not be a section

or an energy there’s a whole section in an office space whole section on HR and

how you can green your HR whole whole section on money obviously

um and so there’s lots of different pieces to it that help businesses think through the fact that every time a

business does anything it has an environmental impact so how do you minimize that and that’s what the book is about it’s a real how-to book and it

hopefully gives if if people walk away from it with just one idea of how to Green their business or how to Green the

business they work for then it’s done its job that’s amazing and he wrote it in three

months yeah well we’ve done we’ve done quite a lot of prep to be fair before that but yeah I mean pretty much we had

I I had a great set of people who I could just pick up the phone to um Helena and I who I worked it with we

did a bunch of interviews Helena pulled it together I kind of structured it if that makes sense so I pulled together

the how how each chapter would work what the content was how we pull all that piece together then Helena Helena would

sort of weave it together um and I yeah I would set up all the interviews and do all the interviews as

well so it was fun I really enjoyed it actually because um you get to find out this you get to

find out things about other people’s businesses and you get to see the challenges because sometimes when you’re

running a company and I think I felt this very much good you’re quite blinkered

because you’re kind of just getting on with keeping the company afloat is the first piece and then once you’re

floating how do you grow it and then what else comes and hits you like recessions and external events and so

you’re const you don’t actually get that much time to go and chat to anybody else unfortunately

I know exactly what you’re saying for my business long term I’d love to be able to be in the position where I can I can

go and chat to people but at the moment there’s only kind of three four of us in the team and you know it’s only a small

company so it’s just at the moment it’s the kind of the pushing it pushing it forwards and not think you know so

actually I’m saying that talking being able to do these podcasts has been amazing because I’m just learning so

much yeah you know just it’s just great so so yeah it’s kind of opening opening

my eyes to so many different things goodness me so next question okay

how do you use your skills how do you the skills that you’ve you’ve kind of learned over the years how do you use

those to kind of do do good in all these other areas you know like I say connected curb and ashrato on site

because isn’t that it’s a charter that’s fairly is that a fairly recent yeah so that was a fund that launched last

November I think it was um first all-female board or listed on

the London Stock Exchange uh which is very exciting and we raised

150 million to go and put rooftop solo on commercial buildings oh

well I say we everybody else did their homework I just grew up there I was I

was okay yes well done Cheerleading from the side I mean I I

guess what do I bring to that so I bring the experience of having done a lot of these things before

um and so I work with CEOs with boards um and with with some of the other

members of the senior exec team to kind of give them some insight of what are the watch apps they should be looking for

um when you should push and when you should be patient um how to support people

um how to structure meetings because it’s quite interesting a lot of people

if it’s the first time you can start to take the lead of a company you don’t

really understand how to report what you’re doing and so a set of a decent set of

management reports I mean some sometimes I do get frustrated with some of the things I do when I see three 400 page

packs of ball packs and and for me that’s that’s a real problem because it means that am I starting to do everybody

else’s job because I’m going to have to what I’d really like is a summary from the individuals of what they think are

going if I need to get into something then you can do that through an internal audit there’s lots of different

processes you can check from a Governor’s point of view but actually what you really want to do in a board

meeting is sit back and go where’s this company going and not nitpick that’s not I don’t think we should be as a board we

should be getting into too much detail we should be making sure we’re heading in the right direction and the ship isn’t going to hit an iceberg

um absolutely absolutely so what would you say the biggest changes are that you’ve seen

over the over the last kind of 10 20 years I know you kind of said about Renewables we’re now at 45 to 50

Renewables now aren’t we is that is that the biggest shift so are there any so I

think if you look at for me if you break down climate there are various areas so

the first first one is actually research and Innovation we were chatting about earlier um research and Innovation for many

years has focused in this country on Pharmaceuticals Aerospace and automotive and there’s been very little money spent

on either climate change or energy um that has shifted so last year Bayes

published the paper which now looks at saying that this this area of zero carbon is a priority for government

and research and Innovation and I think that will make a big difference not immediately but in five to ten years

time we will see new technologies coming through that we just haven’t seen that innovation in the sector

um I think the next big shift we’ve got to see is the infrastructure shift so we

begin to see it on EVS so we’re beginning to see that investment but it needs to keep up the pace and I mean

connector curves brilliant it’s one of the leading installers of EV Chargers but it’s doing curbside so it’s doing

the charges for all those people who don’t have drives and want to be able to charge on the curbside so it’s an

accessibility as much as anything else play but that needs to continue at PACE

if you’re gonna if you’re gonna really push through um and then sort of the heating Market

the heating Market is the biggest challenge which is why it’s exciting by looking at what if infrared what does

heat pump do how do we get these Technologies much more usable for people and then how do you but for me how do

you make Energy Efficiency work I don’t think we spent enough time on understanding how to draft proof old

houses I think we need to spend a lot more time on that because because actually if you

got rid of the attic here so the reason I did this attic this summer was because the previous winter I’ve been sitting up

here and um there there’s where we see where the wall goes to the ceiling there was a big hole there and it was

literally I ended up sticking plus to tape over it to try and stop the scale

that was blowing through this office and I eventually ended up not working up here for like three months I’ve got some

freezing um and and drafts are the worst thing particularly in a country that’s quite

windy so I think I think there’s some good technological change coming on we’ve got some big infrastructure

challenges particularly power networks how do we get all this power offshore and everywhere

um and and sort of Evie we’ve got to still keep investing in those networks and heat technologically we need to see

some shift but I think we’re beginning to see those shifts we know we need to do it and everywhere I go now not

everywhere but a lot of places you see people trying to set up new businesses trying to deal with this challenge

um and once government sorts itself out we get some direction because I mean and

and to be fair Tori is coming out saying they’re going to support onshore wind first time I mean that when I was trying

to do onshore wind in the sort of 2009 to 2012 I mean unheard of literally

unheard of um but then slightly depressing when they go and say they’re going to open a coal mine straight off the back of it

I know I was listening I don’t know whether you listen to the EV Cafe broadcaster no no

I had Friday so and John Curtis was talking about that and he just said great for jobs but

there are more there are still loads of jobs that are needed in sustainability oh God yes completely and the the

infrastructure because why yeah 400 000 per year is what we’re going to need in

terms of engineering capability to be able to deliver on clean energy so we really we’ve got enough jobs I would say

I don’t think that’s a challenge and then and if you think about it now there are there are skills that we’re

learning and jobs that haven’t been invented exactly no so when my son’s 17

so when he’s gone to University and left there will be new jobs coming up because there’ll be Jobs invented you know you

didn’t have sustainability directors previously didn’t we you know and all of a sudden like companies are now

recognizing these are the things that we need to be doing this is what we’re investing in completely but we’re going to need a capability of we’re going to

need electricians who can install solar who can install the EV charging we’re going to need heat pump experts who can

deal with heating systems so we’re going to need jobs across the Spectrum highly skilled jobs and very practical

day-to-day jobs which is so important um for us to be able to deliver on this at scale

I went to um solar and storage live a couple of months ago and it was funny walking

around there’s not many women I’ll say that um but also walking’s walking round now

I’ve worked in apprenticeships previously and there were lots of kind of 20 20 plus old you know young men

kind of walking around there who were obviously there to learn about solo installation which that that to me was

brilliant because I just thought actually yeah it’d be great if there were more girls there females but

actually just to see the number that were coming in and just kind of looking around and and seeing all the different

products was to me was just like this is a turn for me this is this is a move

towards the where we need to be yeah and it’s what it is one of my ambitions to go learn how to put a solar panel on a

roof I haven’t done it yet I really want to go and do that so that is that is something maybe I should make that my

2023 New Year resolution it’s the girl learn how to install that and what else

would I like to install uh maybe maybe I just had a heat pump more because they’re bloody complicated

you know what I tell you I tell you what well you’ve learned them could you come around to my house

because we are we are looking at solar and we’re looking at heat pumps as well so have you got have you got celery yeah

probably about five or six years now I think and how many so how many and have you

got battery storage as well no so interesting I have one of the very early battery storage um trials and um it was incredibly

frustrating because they wouldn’t give me the data for my own house uh well yes I know and I think what they were doing

is they were using the battery to do grid Services um and potentially actually using my

energy to be able to do that and getting paid for it so I actually had it removed

because I didn’t know what it was doing um and I think the one of the things with batteries the real challenge is is

that you’ve got to make sure you’re giving the customer all the information they can have

um so that they they know what this technology is doing and why is it there

um I must admit we’ve had a bit of a bad experience already and I’m not going to say which company it’s with but it’s but

I need to find a really good solar solar kind of installer and somebody who can

kind of give us advice on on heat pumps as well because we you know when you’re really looking

forward to something happening and then all of a sudden then somebody you know you I don’t know whether you how many glass half empty people you know this

guy who came in was definitely glass half empty and I was just like oh okay so so yeah we’re kind of that’s when we

need to yeah and and also I mean one of the other companies I do a bit of work with something called solivas

which is a flexible solar technology which is very exciting because it means that for some rooftops you can’t put

traditional solar on um and they’ve created something and it’s it’s still in Pilot phase but

they’ve created something called The solubus Arc which you can literally put on the drive I’ve heard of this I think I read

something on your LinkedIn page so go on so what is it so basically it’s a it’s a

it’s it’s not so flexible solar is never going to be as efficient as a solar

panel so the challenge you’ve got with it is is the cost versus the fact that

solar panels now are relatively cheap but obviously the installation of the solar panel you’re going to put scaffolding up to put it on a rooftop

um yeah and that there’s a there’s a bunch of other you might I don’t know whether you’ve still got planning issues

I think Planet there so it depends where you are um but with this you can literally you

have to plug it into an inverter so there’s still an installation requirement but if you’ve got space on a driveway or in a garden you can just put

it you can just put it down and that’s it you don’t have to attach it to anything oh wow okay

I’m gonna have to look into that as well lots of information today this is fabulous goodness me so

tell me tell me what you’re doing with connected curb as well because how long have you been working with them as a

non-executive so I always forget how long I’ve been I think I joined them about last April March April time so um

or maybe it’s this April oh I can’t remember um sorry I mean so many things going on

isn’t it there’s a lot going on so Aaron for connected curve connector curve is now going through

so it was found to LED organization um it’s brought in a new CEO to allow

the founders to continue to innovate and look at new new marketplaces and new propositions so in a sense it’s going

from that kind of startup growth phase into a growing up space it’s brought a

lot of capital it’s brought some capital in from Aviva’s but I think we raised about 110 million into the business so

so what that now means is now it’s got to scale up and grow which which means you change the way you do things so you

do have board meetings you do have ball papers you have approval and governance so there’s there’s how do you do that

without stifling the company’s um entrepreneurial Spirit basically and

it’s a real balance to it and also how do you make sure the company as a whole Embraces the green side of it so I

talked to them about the green startup and it’s like what should they be doing as an organization to make sure that

everything they do has a positive impact and they they’ve got brilliant designs made out of recycled materials

um and so and that’s that’s really important for that brand I think and as time goes on that will stand them in

better and better stead as they get bigger that’s brilliant if if they if they’re

doing that so so where um where a connected curve actually

based then whereabouts so they’re based in London they’re based in London but obviously

they develop across the whole of the UK so they work primate a lot with local authorities they have a great local

Authority proposition um they’re and they’re installing yeah right away across the UK at the moment

now that’s really good that’s really good you are you fingers in pies there’s

lots you I don’t know how do you need extra fingers well I think I mean good energy is always quite a complicated

business so we had a lot of different businesses within good um and so I I thrive on it actually I

because I I think what I really enjoy is if I’m constantly learning

um or or mentoring so that kind of constant sort of I’m helping somebody or I’m learning and those two for me

um make me very happy I know what you mean because I I feel

um once I’ve learned something then I can mentor other people because it’s about being able to explain it in a

in kind of like a in Simplicity of terms in order to Mentor that person that

you’re talking to I don’t know about you but I’m I’m just like this sponge like now talking to you this I’m just like a

SpongeBob all in you know and kind of it’s it’s just the information that I’m

getting lately you know on these podcasts has just been absolutely fantastic and I’m really hoping that you

know while we’re talking we’re actually educating other people and I don’t mean

that patronizing way or anything like that I mean there’s just so much to learn isn’t there at the moment yeah or

engaging I mean education is such an interesting word isn’t it because it comes across as being quite passive and

that you’re delivering something and I don’t think that’s the point the point the point is um talking experientially

about what you’ve done and quite often what I find is that maybe 90 of the

things I talk to people about they already know or they don’t need me to there’s that 10 where I can just help

them add a sort of another Insight that comes from the experience that I’ve had

so what what I would call that in continuous Improvement terms because that’s my background I would call that

value added well hopefully you are providing value-added services and value-added

expert you’re giving your experience and sort of adding to what to what they’ve they’ve they already have

I’m gonna make it make it more rounded and take I I always see I always think of it as um as a jigsaw puzzle with few

bits missing they’ve got a lot of them yeah exactly you’re adding in those little little bit and your job is not to

do their job your job is to um give them almost like I think it’s a slightly meerkat moment you know when

you sit up and look around and make sure there’s nothing else going to come at you

I love it I love it so just to finish off because it’s been absolutely riveting and fantastic talking to you

honestly um if people want to find you I know that this one place where I can

see you a lot um which is LinkedIn is that the mate is that the main place to yeah LinkedIn or

I also have my own website which I I need to do more work on uh that’s that’s

part of my current learning experience which is uh Juliet you’re not learning HTML as well no no no no not that yeah

but I am trying to try to learn how to um yeah size pictures and things like that I haven’t quite got it down yet to

be honest Liz it’s something I need I need like a summer break to be able to figure out how to do all that but um

yeah so I’ve got a website called Juliet davenport.com and people can get a hold of me through

that um and Linkedin I do quite a lot of LinkedIn LinkedIn is a is a nice place

to share actually people are interested um and there’s some great I find it a

great place to get new news um coming out of of either my our markets or other marketplaces so yeah

it’s a really interesting Time online I think Renewables and and kind of

anything to do with energy and Renewables and electric vehicles in the in the electric vehicle infrastructure

lots of people are talking about it and hopefully and I’ve kind of said this to lots of other people hopefully it will

all the all the information that’s that’s going that’s actually happening on LinkedIn especially it’s it’s

starting to stop it’s stopping people from being negative about all this yes

there’s some good things there’s some really really good things it’s actually about people recognizing that these are

the good things yes there are a few bad things but there’s lots of good things I agree I agree

but listen thank you Julia it’s been absolutely fascinating to talk to you so thank you again and I’m going to finish

off by saying goodbye to everybody else and I shall see you all next time thank you thank you bye you’ve been watching

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